• chiz about 1 year ago

    chiz edited about 1 year ago
    NinjaGaijin
    Tonar was horrible.. my N447 Tonar (no 267) had horrible channel balance and bad tracking.

    I’ve seen mixed reviews of the Tonar styli and went looking for more info.
    From what I’ve found on this website it looks like some of the Tonar styli are Jico sourced but others may not be.
    Also, the Jico branded Jico are a step up in price again from the Tonar branded Jico.
    I know price is not always a true indicator of quality but I think it’s worth considering.
    https://www.pickupnaalden.com/english/turntable_needles.asp?M=Shure

    For comparison:

    44-7

    €21 Tonar 00267-DS
    Tonar replacement needle

    €29 Tonar 06546-DS
    Tonar (Jico) replacement needle

    €39 Jico 70267-DS
    JICO replacement needle 192-44-7

    44G

    €23 Tonar 06361-DS
    Tonar replacement needle

    €29 Tonar 06548-DS
    Tonar (Jico) replacement needle

    €39 Jico 76361-DS
    JICO replacement needle 192-44G
  • NinjaGaijin about 1 year ago

    NinjaGaijin edited about 1 year ago
    It's true, I mean, I bought the Tonar first, 267 which you show here is a non-Jico. It was bad! I'm guessing the 'good' Tonars are probably the 6546's .. really appreciate that info being posted, should help anyone wanting to give Tonar a shot. Definitely pay the extra for the Jico Tonar if you are going to do it. When I say 'bad', I'm talking around 3dB channel imbalance. At least, enough to light up the next dot up on my mixer's master output leds.. so around 3dB imbalance between right and left. And both carts had the SAME exact imbalance, with the same RIGHT channel being louder than the left. I still have them as backup backup DVS carts since balance doesn't matter for DVS. If you wanted to use them really badly, you could always create an odd effect by switching the headshell leads so that left is right and right is left, so that the LEFT channel on that cart was louder. So then while mixing a blend you'd have each track louder in one speaker, which could be interesting. Would sound crap when not in the blend though. I could see this being interesting with a three or four deck setup, having one or two decks for 'balanced' sound and another couple for a left or right focused stereo image.. it could be cool to have an instrumental on one and the acca on the other for instance. A trade off between having extra clarity of each track (by playing each track mostly through a single speaker) and having a 'normal' setup (both tracks balanced playing through both speakers).

    Presumably the Jico Tonar is 1.5g 'vanilla' tracking though? It seems like if you really want a Shure replacement, legit Jico dj/club/skratch are the way to go, for the 3.5g tracking force reliability.

    They are definitely options - if you are only using timecode, the cheapest Tonar are fine (apart from potential tracking issues). If you want to play some vinyl but don't care about sound quality so much, Jico Tonar should be fine. If you are a DJ, Jico Tonar might be alright but legit Jico 3.5g trackers are the safest bet.

    I've been so busy I sadly haven't had any time to setup my VNL carts or test my Ortofon Concorde Mk2 DJs, but hope to get this done in the coming months. A bit distracted at the moment with (among other things) region-free modding my NES. I know it's not hard, I just take a long time to do basic things sometimes when I'm totally noob! :)
  • chiz about 1 year ago

    NinjaGaijin
    really appreciate that info being posted

    Thank you for sharing your experience and most importantly for specifying which model you were talking about.
    I’ve seen a lot of comments saying Tonar are good or Tonar are bad but almost nobody specifies whether they are talking about the 267 or the 6546.
  • jray821 about 1 year ago

    Does anyone have any experience with the Ortofon Concorde Q.Bert cartridge? I DJ with vinyl and do a lot of backcuing, so like that the Q.Bert has lower tracking force than some of the other Concorde cartridges, but wondering about the audio quality.
  • NinjaGaijin about 1 year ago

    jray821
    Does anyone have any experience with the Ortofon Concorde Q.Bert cartridge? I DJ with vinyl and do a lot of backcuing, so like that the Q.Bert has lower tracking force than some of the other Concorde cartridges, but wondering about the audio quality.


    https://soundcloud.com/user-660295751 this is the only comparison audio I know of - I was keen on the Qbert from specs, but ended up getting DJ mk2 concordes based on this recording comparison. It's not the style of music I play but just based on stylus signature I found the DJ Mk2 the most pleasing to my ears in this line up.

    I've been super busy so haven't been able to give them a spin yet, also have a pair of VNL I need to attach to headshells and align
  • arteom about 1 year ago

    another company getting in on making replacement stylus for the M44, who wants to give it a shot :P? https://www.100sounds.net/2020/01/06/rs-44-100b/
  • shylok 12 months ago

    I've just picked up the Tonar (267) N44-7 stylus from Juno. There is no channel imbalance of -3db or distortion as some report.

    Wave Form > https://pasteboard.co/K3xkywK.jpg
    Audio Clip > https://vocaroo.com/1eTrqPdTt7qG
  • Pistachios 11 months ago

    Sorry I'm so late here. Like many I was gutted about no more shure needles. I tried the Tonar and I had bass distortion on more 'up front' records. Not an audiophile but can hear that they are not as clear and sharp. Sent them back. Even reading this full thread - which is great - I'm still unsure where to jump next. Wish I had bought a stock pile of shure! Don't we all. How do people find the Ortofon scratch mark 2 - I didn't like older versions compared to Shure, but maybe there is little choice now?
  • NinjaGaijin 10 months ago

    shylok
    I've just picked up the Tonar (267) N44-7 stylus from Juno. There is no channel imbalance of -3db or distortion as some report.

    Wave Form > https://pasteboard.co/K3xkywK.jpg
    Audio Clip > https://vocaroo.com/1eTrqPdTt7qG


    That's great to hear!

    Pistachios
    Sorry I'm so late here. Like many I was gutted about no more shure needles. I tried the Tonar and I had bass distortion on more 'up front' records. Not an audiophile but can hear that they are not as clear and sharp. Sent them back. Even reading this full thread - which is great - I'm still unsure where to jump next. Wish I had bought a stock pile of shure! Don't we all. How do people find the Ortofon scratch mark 2 - I didn't like older versions compared to Shure, but maybe there is little choice now?


    I presume a few of us jumped to Ortofon VNL carts.. I still haven't set mine up as I've been super busy and was testing out Concorde DJ mk2 I bought same time. Also next show is on CDJ 2000 NXS2 and I haven't touched a CDJ since 1000mk3 so going to be focusing on that for the next couple of months. But sadly prices for styli are crazy on Ebay even for Jico etc atm. From reports it sounds like VNL is probably the closest thing to 447, but we're never going to have that amazing tracking at 2.5g again it seems like.
  • nascocite 5 months ago

    hi guys, got one or 2 questions, hopefully not off-topic:
    no.1 mk7 sl1210's book says that a 3,5 g tracking force should be matched with 3 anti-skating. I am using n44g JICO (those not made for hiphop to replace m44-7, but the others, hope I got it right - possibly this product https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/n-44g-dj-improved-nude/) Is that alright for house/tech/minimal dj mixing? The concept goes beyond my knowledge atm, if anybody has a bit of extra patience, it would be nice to get an explanation or a relevant webpage link, thanks.
    no 2. also from the technics manual, it recommends to adjust the tonearm height depending on stylus. So, should n44g require such procedure? I noticed a screw, a loose screw, on the tonearm, which should be tightened after height adjustments is complete. Can this screw, lose or fix, affect the tonearm's quality? Should this height adjustment procedure be done for n44gs?
    One note: when connecting cartridge (m44g shure) + jico n44g to technics headshell, I made measurement as per manual an I am getting 53/54 mm distance. Should be 52mm. I also used protractor to see whether the stylus achieves 90* and it is pretty close, however, the step of achieving parallel position to the turntable at the beginning, then setting weight to 0 and then going up to 3,5 g, well I am not sure I got each of them right.
    Thanks,

    Did anybody get the chance to try this combination out https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/j44d-dj-imp-nude/ ? Is that just a n44 JICO stylus mounted on a JICO cartridge or is it some improved stylus?

    Cheers,
  • pulsemod 3 months ago

    Just a historical bump for internet posterity.

    I’m still using the Ortofon Concorde MkII "Mix" cartridges I bought 2 years ago. Absolutely satisfied.
  • NinjaGaijin 3 months ago

    nascocite
    hi guys, got one or 2 questions, hopefully not off-topic:
    no.1 mk7 sl1210's book says that a 3,5 g tracking force should be matched with 3 anti-skating. I am using n44g JICO (those not made for hiphop to replace m44-7, but the others, hope I got it right - possibly this product https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/n-44g-dj-improved-nude/) Is that alright for house/tech/minimal dj mixing? The concept goes beyond my knowledge atm, if anybody has a bit of extra patience, it would be nice to get an explanation or a relevant webpage link, thanks.
    no 2. also from the technics manual, it recommends to adjust the tonearm height depending on stylus. So, should n44g require such procedure? I noticed a screw, a loose screw, on the tonearm, which should be tightened after height adjustments is complete. Can this screw, lose or fix, affect the tonearm's quality? Should this height adjustment procedure be done for n44gs?
    One note: when connecting cartridge (m44g shure) + jico n44g to technics headshell, I made measurement as per manual an I am getting 53/54 mm distance. Should be 52mm. I also used protractor to see whether the stylus achieves 90* and it is pretty close, however, the step of achieving parallel position to the turntable at the beginning, then setting weight to 0 and then going up to 3,5 g, well I am not sure I got each of them right.
    Thanks,

    Did anybody get the chance to try this combination out https://www.jico-stylus.com/product/j44d-dj-imp-nude/ ? Is that just a n44 JICO stylus mounted on a JICO cartridge or is it some improved stylus?

    Cheers,


    1. Antiskating should only be used for regular playing of vinyl - NOT back cueing, mixing etc.
    2. no idea about your loose screw - that sounds like an issue with your tonearm.. I wouldn't touch the screw. Height adjustment is by the base ring of Technics 1200 mk2 - don't know about mk7. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYScinvkrrM
    Of course your tonearm should be PARALLEL to the platter/vinyl. Not angled up or down.. that's why you adjust the tonearm height. This is basic stuff and not really about replacement stylus or Shure stylus..
    You need to find someone to confirm if your tonearm screw is meant to be loose or not. I would leave it how it is if you don't know anything about it. If you bought these new contact the store/Technics support. Or read the manual fully.

    'Improved' Jico just means they have a stylus guard/cover on it. Nothing else. 'DJ' Jico = higher tracking force than the 'vanilla' ones that were meant to be run at 'Shure' tracking forces. The 'vanilla' ones didn't track well though from what I heard.
  • arteom 3 months ago

    A comparison between the NAGAOKA and the 100SOUNDS stylus replacements for the M44G - https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/en/contents/staff-blog/index?post=1672
  • NinjaGaijin 3 months ago

    arteom
    A comparison between the NAGAOKA and the 100SOUNDS stylus replacements for the M44G - https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/en/contents/staff-blog/index?post=1672


    Not bad review, but not very useful for DJs who need to know how well it tracks with back cueing, scratching etc. Still nice to hear about the sound differences.
  • arteom 3 months ago

    Both are missing a stylus guard that came on the original M44's, so not sure either would be practical in that sense as a DJ cartridge, as they would be prone to damage during transport and install. Sound-wise it seems the 100sounds is better suited for electronic dance music.

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